How did you come up with the name Small Talk?
Small Talk originally came from a print I made, part of a series called 7 Things You Can Make to Avoid Thinking about Death. Others had to do with breakfast or sex. Small Talk was a drawing of two skeletons facing each other in stiff conversation and there was a speech bubble between them that said “What do you do for a living?” When I started making the hand-drawn pieces, they felt like conversation pieces, especially in such an inevitably social city as New York, so the name clicked and made sense.
Who is Small Talk in its current state?
Me, Phil Ayers, Alex Brown – who works with Phil on the custom pieces and contributes illustration and design to some of our ready-to-wear pieces – and Michelle Dingsun, who manages production, development and helps me on designing the seasonal collections. It’s also Christian Filardo, our main photographer and someone we’re always bouncing ideas off.
Walk us through how a custom piece is made.
We send a prompt asking for a stream-of-consciousness list of references, and then we use that list to source images of references for drawing. For example, if someone mentions that a certain restaurant is special to them or the name of the body shop their dad ran when they were growing up, we would start digging for images of an old matchbook, piece of stationery or menu from that place. Most of the time there are a few gems to be found in some bygone era of merch from places like this. Our process also involves re-contextualising imagery and text – like “Oh, this phrase goes perfectly with this image and it happens to reference this thing in their list…” Our process allows for serendipitous moments like that.
Back to the “stream of consciousness” prompt, why is free association the opportune channel for Small Talk to work with?
Because that’s how we approach drawing on a garment. We do it one drawing at a time and let the composition build out organically. It’s also a helpful way to encourage people not to be too rigid or literal with their lists. Some unexpected gems get thrown in there as a result.
Do you ever say no to a request? Is there such a thing as too weird?
Nothing is too weird! There are things that can’t be translated into a good drawing (at least within our ability or process) or sometimes if something is leaning corporate or hyper-contemporary/topical, we’ll skip it or find a different version that we feel still nods to the same idea. But luckily, we don’t have to say no because we encourage people to send more references than we could actually use in a single piece, and the expectation is that not every single thing will be represented anyway.
Which images are submitted most often?
A bottle of Aperol, a vintage Porsche and a plate of steak frites.
Submitted lists are broad yet specific; it’s a unique insight into people. Has this engagement impacted the way you actually make small talk?
It’s possible! I love hearing about people’s niche and strange interests. I think living in New York and being out in the world meeting people more often than before I lived here in itself has had a lot more impact on how I make small talk with strangers.
As you collect references anywhere and everywhere, I imagine it can be difficult to make edits when travelling. What is one thing you regret not buying?
A vintage Hermès jacket I saw the first time we went to Paris for market. It was this beautiful, sporty silk jacket, and it is still the most perfectly fitting piece of clothing I’ve ever tried on.
You transitioned from a part- to full-time focus on Small Talk during summer 2020. What connection do you make between the global climate of that moment and the desire for bespoke garments?
I think for us, it’s as simple as: we make expensive, labour-intensive garments meant to be kept long-term, and people had more money to spend for a little while. Luckily, that little while was long enough to get a lot of these bespoke garments out into the world and create enough desire and trust for us to build upon that and turn this into a full-scale clothing brand where those bespoke hand-drawn garments are just one part of a larger label.
Why is workwear the right foundation for custom pieces?
The foundation needed to be both durable and versatile. The styling potential is expansive and these garments that so much labour goes into are also built to last.
What qualities attract you to the fabrics and cuts you use for ready to wear?
With fabrics, I am attracted to texture and how it’s going to fall on the body. I like something elegant that has an unexpected texture – like this raw silk twill we’ve used in recent collections. It’s soft and has a luxurious drapey quality, but it also has this nubby texture, like a pilly sweater or T-shirt. The result in the finished garment is something that fits and looks elevated and intentional but also a bit slouchy in just the right way.
Your pieces have been referred to as “heirloom garments.” What are your favourite heirlooms?
My maternal grandma came here from India in the 1950s and when she was pregnant with my mom, she had this beautiful lightweight woven wool shawl that she did this intricate hand embroidery on – a beautiful repeating floral pattern. Several years ago, after she taught me how to embroider (the genesis of this whole operation, really), she gave me the shawl. I couldn’t figure out how to style it, and we had just started our first experiments with cut-and-sew garments at one of the factories we work with, so I had them make it into a shirt. They did a beautiful job. It means a lot to me as an object that both my grandma and the people at this factory put so much love into.
I imagine your school notebooks were filled with doodles. What did you like drawing?
Lots of doodles… The thing I drew most often was a character I called Fancy Cat. He was a simple snowman-like cat figure wearing a tuxedo jacket, a top hat and a monocle… really cool guy.
Finish this sentence: After I discovered...
…the Inland Empire and High Desert outside of LA, my aesthetic took a turn.
Favourite logo?
Toyota, hands down.
Hardest body part to draw?
Hands.
If you could live with any piece of art, what would it be?
Ken Price sculpture.
Most frequent random act of kindness?
Driving people home when it’s not on the way and picking up friends from the airport.